“I want to expose my child to their birth culture but am worried they won’t like having it forced down their throat.”
While I understand where adoptive parents are coming from when they say this, I can’t help but see a problem with this kind of statement. Anyone who’s followed my writing long enough knows how much value I put on “birth culture” and why. Its significance goes far beyond just “knowing where you came from”. How exactly does one base aspects of one’s identity on some spot on the map and a few holidays?
There will always be some adoptees who say that it’s important and some who will say they simply don’t care. That is the right of each individual and that’s the clincher. Since each child is an individual, how exactly can anyone predict who will and who will not value their birth culture and to what degree? The problem is no one can predict this but it shouldn’t be used as an excuse to just forget the whole thing.
Hopefully we are past the days when adoptive parents naively assume that they are getting a “blank slate”. There is enough out there to at least begin the process of informing and educating themselves on the complexities that come with adoption. However, it takes a willingness to listen and try to understand. The fact that I’m still seeing statements like this is not a good sign.
When I come across comments like the one above, I feel like someone has just dumped a bowl of jello down my pants. I have to resist the urge to jump up and down while running from the room. From the day they bring these children home, adoptive parents begin imposing their culture on the child. This comes in the form of nursery rhymes, lullabies, fairy tales, television, food, language and religion.
Why is it a problem “force-feeding” a child their own culture yet it’s perfectly okay to impose their own? I was dragged to church on Sundays where I was the only person of color and made to sit in American History classes so I could learn the American side of the Vietnam war. Why was it perfectly okay to “shove” someone else’s culture down my throat while depriving me of my own? I don’t think it was a malicious act on the part of my parents, but that is what was being done.
Firstly, I’ve not heard anyone suggest that a child’s birth culture be “shoved down their throat”. I would have thrown a fit if my parents had made me wear an ao dai and paraded me around like some freak. I was already in a environment where I stood out and would have resented having that further emphasized. That, in my opinion, was a large part of the problem. I was in an environment that was NOT well suited for offering and making me feel comfortable with learning about Vietnamese culture.
The fact that an adoptive parent would even think of it as “force feeding” is a sad statement in itself because it illustrates the amount of loss. What that says to me is that a child’s birth culture no longer belongs to the child. It’s now held “in trust” by the adoptive parent to do with as they please.
Also, I think one has to realize that a child’s “birth culture” doesn’t necessarily end with that of their birth country. As for myself, I seem to be undergoing a kind of backwards migration. I look to Vietnam as my “birth culture” but must find some way to consolidate it with my current self. That is when I must “return” and focus on the Vietnamese American community. They have already begun the process of striking the balance between their two identities. The fact that I use “they” and not “we” should tell you something.
Even though technically I’m a 1st generation Vietnamese American, I would be much more successful trying to fit myself between 2nd and 3rd generation Vietnamese Americans than I would among those of the 1st. My children would probably fit somewhere between 2nd and 3rd or 4th.
Yes, I understand that each family and each individual will differ depending on experiences and personalities. Looking to the Vietnamese American community doesn’t provide a perfect model, but it’s the best I have to work with. Nothing will ever fully compensate for the loss of my birth culture nor will I ever truly “fit in” but I refuse to walk away empty-handed and starving.
I may need to print out your statement (with your permission, of course) and use it when my own family of origin uses that argument with my husband and I about not “overdoing” it with our son’s culture — Vietnamese as well — with raising him. *sigh* When I tried to explain that: 1. it will be important for him to be exposed to his birth culture, they just talked over me; and 2. like being “overexposed” where we live is going to be a problem to begin with!! We need to drive a bit — not too far, but it’s just not in our exact vicinity so there’s not exactly a “danger” (I’m saying that facetiously) of being “overexposed.”
Anyways, I appreciate reading your viewpoint on this. Thank you.
thank you for helping me see a different view than what I had before.
Hi, Sume – haven’t commented here before but I’ve been following for quite awhile. I, too, have heard multiple APs basically use the ‘anti-force-feeding’ argument as a basis for doing *nothing* to help their children feel in touch with their birth cultures. This drives me nuts because it is such a total cop-out…the lack of birthculture exposure will be *blamed on* the adoptee (‘*HE* doesn’t act interested at all, so there is no way we are going to ’shove it down his throat…’) as if the child had a choice in the matter. Some people want to believe that they can be blameless as far as how their child receives his/her birthculture. I don’t have all the answers by any means, but any AP should know it’s total b.s. to refuse to take on this responsibility and then blame one’s own child for the results.
I was excited to see this post, Sume, because I have a blog post sitting in my “drafts” queue about this very topic — a different facet of it, but still. Thanks for pointing out the way that “force-feeding birth culture” is feared, but “force-feeding” adoptive culture is rarely questioned, as the norm. It’s always interested me how “forcing birth culture” is seen as potentially damaging, but that how well the adoptee “adapts” to adoptive culture is supposedly an indicator of healthy and well-adjusted the adoptee is. By whose standards?
I recently read a post on another AP’s blog I frequently stating just what you quoted, and hadn’t quite been able to form my rebutle yet. You articulated EVERYTHING and more, and your perspective is one I greatly value. I read your blog regularly, and thought this post is the appropriate time for me to finally comment and express how much I appreciate your voice.
salaam sume, this is the problem i had when i first started reading about TRA actvism on your blog, the idea that APs would think that they somehow “know” their a-child’s culture, but in reality that “knowing” would be limited to the way a person raised in the US is socialized to view their a-child’s culture, like say if the kid was from VN the parents would make them wear ao dai and the VN dinners would be horrible attempts at noodles soaked in fish sauce or something. and the house would be decorated with buddhas and chinoise trinkets like the ones u mentioned in your post about the sale bin at Target or whatever. and then the kid feels even weirder and really resents what is getting “shoved down the throat” as VN “culture.”
I have no idea what really IS out there for a-parents. Is there really a way to get it right? Honestly (and sadly) I don’t think there really is because I from what I have seen about the average a-parent from your blog and the blogs of your friends is that the vast majority are not capable of getting it right. dare I say it, because they are typical American white people, at no fault of their own. Their only semblance of a connection to their a-child’s birth culture is the child him/herself. and when they start to get to know the culture it will be a minefield of racism and orientalism from people who “don’t have a racist bone in their bodies” and can’t even identify what is wrong with what they are doing. maybe i am just underestimating these a-parents??? I am a pessimist, after all.
I recently directed an AP of two Vietnamese children to your blog. I PRAY she and her vast array of AP friends reads this post. I met them at a dinner sponsored by an adoption education group I belong to. I was happy to see the genuine interest most (sadly not all) displayed in truly wanting to learn how to be a better parent to their adopted children. Shifting the way society views adoption is a slow process but I do see enough small changes to make me want to keep going.
Sume you DO make a difference.
I think you are minimizing a topic that a lot of adoptive parents I know are really grappling with. I don’t know that context of that statement. Was the individual really using this argument to avoid keeping the child close to his/her birthculture?
You say yourself that tras all feel differently about the subject. As aparents to tra children it is up to us to know our children well enough to meet their needs at different points in their lives. This is not always so simple and straightforward. Many of us worry every day that our children will resent our efforts be they those that try to bring their birthculture to them or those that pull away from an unwanted overdose.
I can speak for myself on this. I’ve spent a lot of time planning for my daughter to be able to be very close to Chinese culture in this country and to tras like herself. DH and I have been thinking about family trips to China every year, particularly our children’s home provinces. It dawned on me that I may be imposing my wishes for my children ON my children.
For now I’m going to take the planning and exposure to birthculture one step at a time.
Thanks for this. We’ve been talking and thinking a lot about what implications integrating our son’s birthculture into our lives will have and how we can do that in a non-exoticizing/trivializing way, and your words bring new clarity to my thoughts. I don’t comment often, but I’m a faithful reader and appreciator!
Thanks everyone for your comments.
mom2one, sure no problem. “Over-exposure” is a matter of perspective anyway. What might be too much for some maybe just right or not enough for others. In the end, your son will take what he wants and reject what he doesn’t. I think a lot of the times, kids become uncomfortable because they sense disapproval in those around them or are made to feel like their birth culture doesn’t “belong” in the family. They might end up feeling singled out…again and then of course they’re going to run the other way.
It might help to explain to them that your son will find out he’s different anyway. Why not prepare him by making sure he doesn’t view those differences as a detriment or flaw in himself?
Anyway, don’t let them discourage you, because this is about your son, not about them.
Zoe, good point and what those who say that are forgetting is that it’s about about responsibility and that’s a lot of what I’m always trying to get across. It’s the parent’s responsibility to provide ways for a child to connect to his/her birth culture…period. That “anti-force-feeding” attitude just shows how much they value their own “culture” over their child’s. It’s like their’s is the default and everything else is expendable.
Ji-in, I can’t wait to see the post you’re working on.
“It’s always interested me how “forcing birth culture” is seen as potentially damaging, but that how well the adoptee “adapts” to adoptive culture is supposedly an indicator of healthy and well-adjusted the adoptee is. By whose standards?”
You nailed it. What that says to me is that again the burden is being shifted to the adoptee. Basically, it’s a cop out. It’s time to challenge those standards and put the responsibility back into the hand of adoptive parents. Why should all the “adaptation” be placed on the child’s shoulders?
Thanks for delurking, Laurie. This is a difficult one to articulate because it’s been twisted (like so many other things) into appearing to “favor” or be “out of concern” for the adoptee.
more later…I’m sleepy!
Have a good night everyone!
Another great post Sume! We APs walk a fine line. We struggle to do the right thing and pray we are actually doing it. Reading these things from you (as an adult TRA) scares AND helps us! Keep it up. We need it.
Side note: we went to the Portland Tet (BIG festival). After having been there for 30 minutes, my daughter turned to me and said, “why aren’t we wearing our Ao Dais?” It did make me think!
-VNBYA
Malai, Wa Salaam sweety,
Yes, I remember us talking along those lines before. I hear what you’re saying and there are days when my own pessimism gets the better of me. Unfortunately, I can’t really see a clear-cut way to completely “get it right”. In some ways, adoption will always be in the experimental stages. There are things out there to get adoptive parents started like camps, conferences, books and support groups, but I think sometimes we’re a looong way off from seeing something solid.
Anyway, it doesn’t matter how much is out there is available if adoptive parents can’t get past being so intimidated or over-whelmed that they put in minimal effort or just give up altogether. That’s why it’s so important that potential adoptive parents educate and take a hard, honest look at themselves and our society before they even seriously consider adoption. Even adoption that is same race, same ethnicity can bring a sense of disconnectedness and problems with identity. Adding in factors of race and culture can it to a whole new level. If potential adoptive parents find those initial steps too overwhelming, should they really be adopting?
Hey Mia! Thanks and yeah, I think that a lot of adoptive parents are genuinely interested and concerned. It’s always encouraging when I see them express interest and actively begin trying to do something about it.
Margaret, exactly how am I minimizing the topic? The reason I didn’t post the context of the statement is because my problem is with the statement itself which I made clear in the beginning. Then I go on to explain why it’s a problem. It can set the stage for using “force-feeding culture” as an excuse.
“As aparents to tra children it is up to us to know our children well enough to meet their needs at different points in their lives. This is not always so simple and straightforward.”
Exactly where is it that I refute that? As far as I remember, I’ve done nothing but say the exact same thing.
You are perfectly entitled to your own opinion and I respect that, however I think once again, you are taking my post too personally. I said, “The problem is no one can predict this but it shouldn’t be used as an excuse to just forget the whole thing.” I did not say “they (APs) shouldn’t…” There is a difference. I have also stated several times that any “issue” concerning adoption is complex and can never be approached in black and white or too simply.
Please keep in mind that my blog is not about making people feel good. If it makes people feel uncomfortable, then hopefully they will begin to ask themselves why. On the other hand, I don’t want to make adoptive parents feel so discouraged that they give up all together. Then, I’ve defeated my own purpose. I, too, must walk a fine line.
Artsweet, you and others have picked up on something I pointed to but don’t have the experience to really talk about; not overdoing it and fetishizing or exoticizing a child’s birth culture. This one will have to be taken up by someone who has more experience and I really hope to see more on this topic soon.
Thanks vnbya, it is a fine line and parenting is a constant struggle for balance anyway. In a lot of ways, I’m not all that different when it comes to striking a balance between cultures, especially when it comes to passing it to my own children. I’m as or less familiar with my birth culture than most adoptive parents.
I’m glad you, S and G were able to make it! Got any photos?
lol Any trips to Fubonn lately?
Sume, I only wanted to read the context because I think the statement can mean different things depending on the context. Some people may be using it as an excuse to not expose their child to birthculture at all.
Although I don’t know anyone personally like this, I do know that when I got together with a group of aparents recently I learned that this is a topic that other aparents, as well as myself, grapple with. I can certainly see someone making a statement such as the one you opened your post with, but not be using it as an excuse at all. They may be making every effort to bring the child’s birthculture to the child and are truly worried about pushing it too much on the child. For example, it’s very important to ME that my daughter learn Mandarin, but I’ve heard from other families that their Chinese children fight with them over learning. I’ll really grapple with what to do if this happens with us. On the one hand I want my daughter to know her native language, and so on, but I don’t want to forcefully impose my wishes for her on her.
I dunno, maybe we aren’t really talking about the same thing.
I certainly know that you don’t write to make people happy or comfortable. Never said you did. Never thought you should. And, I really wasn’t trying to be antagonistic.
Margaret, regardless of the context or the intention, the statement is wrong. Adoption is full of well-meaning, concerned parents but that’s not the point.
Similarly, our society is rife with unintentional or colorblind racism. Does someone who says, “Asians make great employees because they’re smart and hard-working” mean to be racist? Probably not. He might actually mean it as a compliment but his statement is racist.
Intention is not what I’m pointing to here.
A well-respected adoption social worker once said to white parents of asian children, it’s fine to celebrate festivals and the like, but authentic cuture, “It is not yours to give.” Meaning, we (AP’s) must make an effort to bridge our children to their respective Asian-American communities. She also said “It will be hard, but it is your responsibility.” She went on to say that this is not about learning Mandarin, cooking dishes, festivals, (altho she said that is all nice, too) but rather who crosses your front door, what ethnicity are the professionals you go to (ie doctor, dentist), and how diverse is the school your child attends.
Sume, I have a question and it is a personal one so please don’t be offended.
I undersatnd your children are mixed race (I think your husband is Lebanese, iirc), how do you manage to combine/ expose them to all their cultures , vietnamese, lebanese and american?
I’m worried I’ve worded this impolitely, but it’s something I’m interested to know. Btw, I totally agree with your post.
Intention isn’t what I was really talking about either. I’m talking about behavior and I think we are talking right past each other. I have a very thorough understanding of what unintentional racism is. I’m not sure why you brought that up in response to my post. It’s very obvious to me why the statement you mention is racist.
Marla, I’m not sure I can completely agree. Yeah, APs should bridge a child to his/or her culture, but I think things like food, language, holidays and history are part of that as well. We don’t absorb those things “through osmosis” though some things may “rub off”. I’m not an “expert” by any means but am speaking through my own experience. It’s those tangible things that help me to “connect” to the intangible things like pride and sense of ethnicity and self. Without them, I have very little to build upon. Each holiday, each dish has behind it a richness that goes beyond the surface. Tet is more than just “New Year’s Day”. It’s the Feast of First Morning, a time when ties to the earth, family and ancestry are celebrated. Bánh chưng and phở are more than just “Vietnamese dishes”, they are the taste of my birthplace.
That’s not to say that one could expect an AP to “do it all”. That’s just unrealistic. As VNBYA said, it’s a fine line. I think balance is the key. If AP’s incorporated part of a child’s birth culture into their lives BEFORE they adopted, then doing those things would come more naturally and feel less “forced”.
Safiya, it’s just the kind of question I would expect you to ask.
Congratulations on your marriage! I’m so sorry I’ve been so scarce. You’re much better than me.
Yup, you are correct. American culture is just a given since we live here. Before I began to delve into Vietnamese culture, everything else was Lebanese. We had Lebanese friends, ate Lebanese food. We visited Lebanon and my in laws visited us. They were learning the Arabic in the Lebanese dialect. Shoo badik? Keefic. lol Who else uses “shoo”?
I pretty much “became Lebanese” in the closest sense possible. Of course, I wouldn’t suggest anyone go that route. I’m smacking myself for it now and am back to trying to strike that balance which now involves three cultures instead of just two. As you know, the lines can get blurry with things like religion, media and all those other social “issues” that I once blogged about. They went to the mosque for Arabic lessons and Quran classes. I put a stop to that for reasons that I explained on Hu. Leave it to me to make things more complex than they already were.
Really, don’t worry. I think I know exactly why you’re asking. Feel free to fire me an email if you want to discuss this in detail.
Margaret, I used the unintentional racism example because the two statements are commonly stated in a similar way. Honestly, I’m not exactly sure what it is you’re looking for here.
Margaret — my husband is Chinese-American (first generation) and HATED Chinese school. So he fought it like the devil and doesn’t really want to send our kids there. The difference? Chinese was his first language at home. His mom only really speaks Chinese to him. So he didn’t really need Chinese school, and he speaks Mandarin to our kids enough of the time that they are familiar with words and phrases and tones. Notwithstanding that, my 5 year old son and 2 year old daughter and I took a Mom and me mandarin class last year so I could learn songs, and simple phrases etc. We loved it. and as the white parent it was good for me to take with them.
DS-L
DSL, I do think it’s so important for my dd to learn Mandarin, that’s why sending her to Chinese school (maybe even an immersion school if I can find one relatively close) is so important to me. I hope she understands the importance. She has foster parents in China who I’m sure would let us visit. I would really want her to be able to communicate with them. I want her to feel familiar with the culture in China as well. Sometimes I think about the possibility of her meeting the family she was born to.
Right now, I’m trying to get started teaching myself some Mandarin at home. I’ve had some success, but I really do need to take classes. I’d really like to become fluent.
“Why is it a problem ‘force-feeding’ a child their own culture yet it’s perfectly okay to impose their own?”
Hello Sume. I think there may be a problem with your assumptions here. Do APs really “impose” their culture on their children? I don’t think so. Like everyone else, APs simply *have* a culture, and like any other parent, they transmit the only culture they know to their children. By suggesting that they impose their culture you imply that there is some non-imposing alternative.
“I was dragged to church on Sundays where I was the only person of color and made to sit in American History classes so I could learn the American side of the Vietnam war.”
Interesting. I learned the communist side of the Vietnam War in American History class. I only learned the Vietnamese side – what you would call the American side – from my Vietnamese refugee friends in college. The Vietnamese culture I know is profoundly anti-communist.
“Why was it perfectly okay to ’shove’ someone else’s culture down my throat while depriving me of my own? I don’t think it was a malicious act on the part of my parents, but that is what was being done.”
Your parents, like all parents, had only one culture to give, and that is every bit as much *your* culture as is your birth culture. It is good that you are exploring your birth culture as an adult, but the first thing that parents must do is give their children some definite rootedness in a particular culture that can be realistically known and lived by their children. Rootedness does not come from mere exposure: it comes from living 24-7 among particular people in a particular place.
I do appreciate you expressing some of the difficulties, anxieties and issues that are unique to TRAs – especially with respect to identity. I think you’re right that APs should be aware of these issues and strive to address them. But I would ask that you try to understand the extraordinary nature of your situation. Perhaps APs can improve on this or that, but I get the sense that nothing they can do realisitically would satisfy you short of adopting their children’s birth culture themselves. That simply is not possible for adults. The best that APs might do is become almost bi-cultural, but raising a child in a bi-cultural situation is not good either. Children need a primary foundational culture for their identity, rooted in home and community, not a mish-mash of things borrowed from here and there. Once they have that foundation they can perhaps explore and borrow from other cultures with minimal disruptions in their personal identity.
Ultimately your arguments boil down to arguments against trans-racial adoption, period.
“Does someone who says, ‘Asians make great employees because they’re smart and hard-working’ mean to be racist? Probably not. He might actually mean it as a compliment but his statement is racist.”
Most Asians I know are smart and hard working and make good employees. Why is saying this racist?
Hi Jeff,
Well again, I disagree. Impose by definition is “to put or set by or as if by authority: to impose one’s personal preference on others.” Adoptive parents are taking a child from his/her birth culture. They are the ones with the authority, the child is helpless and has no choice but to rely on the parent. If the parent chooses to ignore their birth culture in favor of their own, they are imposing it upon the child.
There is a non-imposing alternative. Adoptive parents can incorporate aspects of a child’s birth culture into their family and make sure they are able to interact with people of the same ethnicity. I know a few adoptive parents who are doing this quite well in my opinion.
*edit Not to mince words again but that wouldn’t technically be a “non-imposing” alternative. Parents whether adoptive or not “impose” upon their children their family values, culture, religion etc. That is just what we do as parents. I’m focusing more on what is being imposed rather than the act itself.
Yes, that is intersting Jeff. In history class, they never told me about things like My Lai or the long term affects of Agent Orange or of the suffering that the people left behind had to endure. I had to find those things out on my own.
“Rootedness does not come from mere exposure: it comes from living 24-7 among particular people in a particular place.”
Exactly, that is why they should incorporate a child’s birth culture into their family along with their own and make sure they are around people of their own ethnicity. It can realistically be done with a bit of effort from adoptive parents and with the help of support groups and (hopefully) from people from their community who are of the same ethnicity as their child.
“The best that APs might do is become almost bi-cultural, but raising a child in a bi-cultural situation is not good either.”
So you are saying that bi-culturalism is not good? Then what about all the bi-cultural people who exist in America today? Are you saying they should fully assimilate themselves into “American” society by your definition, whatever that may be, or should they try to exist in America without ever incorporating its culture into their lives?
I think bi-culturalism is exactly what adoptive parents should be shooting for. You seem to be making the assumption that I expect adoptive parents to “become” the ethnicity of their adoptive child. I never said that.
People will take from what I write what they will depending on what they bring with them. So what you boil it down to depends on your own assumptions and in this case they are incorrect.
“Does someone who says, ‘Asians make great employees because they’re smart and hard-working’ mean to be racist? Probably not. He might actually mean it as a compliment but his statement is racist.”
“Most Asians I know are smart and hard working and make good employees. Why is saying this racist?”
It is a stereotype based on race and is inaccurate.
Sume…I’m coming in very late and I apologize. I’m shaking my head right now at some of what I see here. I agree with your original post which has transpired to many “interesting” comments. I should probably get back to work though since I’m so hard working, smart and a good employee. :p
Hey Sume,
I’m coming in late as well although I read your post awhile ago. I don’t usually comment, but am feeling the need to de-lurk on this one. I totally agree with your original post, and am very glad that you wrote it, cuz it definitely is an issue that needs to be addressed. You really hit the nail on the head with this one and that’s probably why you’re getting so many reactionary comments.
As for what may be some a-parents’ very real concerns over adopted children rejecting or pulling away from attempts at exposing them to their birth culture… I’m sure there are many adoptees that do pull away, but I think that it’s important that we examine the possible reasons WHY they do this.
Tokenizing, exoticizing, and generally making said adoptee feel like a freak might be a contributing factor in their rejecting what is being presented as their “birth culture”. The adoptee’s, their a-family’s and their community’s level of investment in whiteness might be a factor as well.
Which leads me to my larger point here: It’s relatively easy for white liberals to embrace “multi-culturalism” these days, but it’s a bit more work to sit down and educate one’s self about the construction of race and the functioning of racism and white-privilege in this country. It’s even more work to develop strategies to combat these things in your daily life and to educate your child about them so that they may do so in their own.
So, if you are actively involving your child in their birth culture in a non-messed-up way, living in a diverse community, have friends of your child’s ethnicity, etc. and your child rejects their birth culture, you probably need to check yourself on how you are addressing issues of race, racism, whiteness and white-privilege. Because the only possible reason that I can think of that an adoptee would reject their a-parents attempts at involving them in their birth culture in such a scenario is good old internalized racism.
Whew, that was really long… sorry to hijack your thread Sume… back to being scarce for me!
p.s. complaining about language classes… come on folks! Of course kids are gonna complain about language classes… they complain about having to do homework and their chores too. Very few things that are worth doing in life are easy or fun all of the time.
“Well again, I disagree. Impose by definition is ‘to put or set by or as if by authority: to impose one’s personal preference on others.’ Adoptive parents are taking a child from his/her birth culture. They are the ones with the authority, the child is helpless and has no choice but to rely on the parent. If the parent chooses to ignore their birth culture in favor of their own, they are imposing it upon the child.”
One problem with this definition is the “as if by authority” clause. Parents do have authority – real authority, not pretended or usurped authority – when it comes to the culture of their household. So to use the word “impose” implies parents are doing something they don’t have a right to do.
Another problem is that word “impose” in this context implies that the child is being imposed upon against his will. It’s a word that sets up a conflict between two opposing wills: that of the imposer, and that of the imposed-upon victim. Same with “force feeding” of course. Maybe you didn’t mean it that way, but that’s the implication. However, since children are (as you point out) helpless and without a choice in the matter, whatever parents do is in that sense “imposing”.
“There is a non-imposing alternative. Adoptive parents can incorporate aspects of a child’s birth culture into their family and make sure they are able to interact with people of the same ethnicity. I know a few adoptive parents who are doing this quite well in my opinion.”
If that’s your main point, I don’t disagree. Wish you had put it that way the first time. But I think it is important to keep in mind that “incorporating aspects of a child’s birth culture” is not a substitute for giving the child a culture of his own.
“I’m focusing more on what is being imposed rather than the act itself.”
Maybe this is what I’m not getting. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you seem to be saying that APs are wrong – for example – to drag their child to church if that child is a trans-racial adoptee whose “birth culture” has a different religion. That APs should not impose their own culture on TRA children. If that’s what you’re saying, then I don’t think that’s a workable or even a coherent principle.
“Yes, that is intersting Jeff. In history class, they never told me about things like My Lai or the long term affects of Agent Orange or of the suffering that the people left behind had to endure.”
Well that’s all I heard about in my history classes. Maybe it’s a California thing. It wasn’t until I was immersed in the world of Vietnamese refugees that I heard another view. I remember once having lunch with one of my new Vietnamese friends. In the course of conversation I sort of apologized for all those terrible things we ugly Americans did to his beautiful country and how it was a good thing that his people finally kicked us out. Man did he let me have it! I was treated to a fiery pro-American anti-communist speech that would have made Ronald Reagan blush!
The Vietnamese I knew in college were immensely grateful to the U.S. for her efforts against communism. And they were unabashedly eager to embrace the culture of their new home – even to the point of excess in my opinion. I guess that’s what bothers me. I have known too many Vietnamese Americans who have worked tirelessly to possess what you have inherited, Sume: the cultural patrimony of the United States and the Christian West. They loved their own “birth culture”, too, but they knew its flaws better than you or I do and did not romanticize it.
Jeff: “Rootedness does not come from mere exposure: it comes from living 24-7 among particular people in a particular place.”
Sume: “Exactly, that is why they should incorporate a child’s birth culture into their family along with their own and make sure they are around people of their own ethnicity. It can realistically be done with a bit of effort from adoptive parents and with the help of support groups and (hopefully) from people from their community who are of the same ethnicity as their child.”
Again, I think you do have a point here and can’t really disagree. But very few families are in a position to do this very well. Perhaps American families who don’t live in cosmopolitan big cities just shouldn’t adopt internationally. We’ve considered adopting internationally and, quite honestly, your blog has given me serious pause.
“So you are saying that bi-culturalism is not good?”
I am saying that attempting bi-culturalism is not good because genuine bi-culturalism is not possible. When it comes to culture you get a major and a minor, at best. All the rest is trivial. Everyone has a major. Some people are fortunate enough to have a minor. Perhaps it is best for TRAs to major in their home culture and minor in their birth culture. I would not want to see the reverse.
“Then what about all the bi-cultural people who exist in America today?”
I deny that there are many bi-cultural people in America today. Or anywhere else for that matter.
“Are you saying they should fully assimilate themselves into ‘American’ society by your definition, whatever that may be, or should they try to exist in America without ever incorporating its culture into their lives?”
This may come as a surprise to you but I wouldn’t want anyone to fully assimilate into American culture today. Our culture is a mess and becomes more depraved by the hour. The challenge for everyone – immigrants and natives alike – is to assimilate the *best* of American culture and throw the rest in the trash heap. Immigrants should embrace as much of American culture as possible without corrupting their morals or disrupting a good and wholesome way of life.
Jeff: “Most Asians I know are smart and hard working and make good employees. Why is saying this racist?”
Sume: “It is a stereotype based on race and is inaccurate.”
Yes, it is a stereotype based on race that is consistent with my own experience. That isn’t necessarily racism. If it turns out to be false, then I will be mistaken, but it does not follow that I am a racist. Furthermore if the statement is false, then the converse – “most Asians are neither smart nor hard working nor good employees” – must therefore be true. Either way, I don’t think you would deny that cultural characteristics often correlate with with racial and ethnic categories. That being the case it can hardly be considered “racism” to talk about it.
More on bi-culturalism:
I said that “everyone has a major” when it comes to culture. I would add that it is a lot of work ensuring that one’s cultural “major” is deep and broad, healthy and confident, virtuous and discerning. It is possible, certainly, for one person to have experience with two cultures in equal measure. My wife comes closer than anyone else I know in that regard. But this is a burden to her – a burden not without blessings, to be sure, but a burden that she doesn’t want for her children. When it comes to deciding what time to show up for a wedding reception, or whether to look one’s father in the eye when he’s speaking to you, or whether to stand when the teacher walks into the room, etc., it matters whether one’s “major” is American or Vietnamese. That’s why I think bi-culturalism (and of course multi-culturalism) really ends up trivializing culture.
Jeff,
I appreciate your opinions but don’t you have a blog? Look, there’s points where we’ll agree and points where we don’t. That’s just life. You have your opinion based on your own perspective, and I have mine. Most people who read my blog realize and respect that I have my own perspective and they understand why. The people who don’t like what I have to say just stop reading.
At this point, it should be obvious that I’m not going to change my mind nor do I feel obligated to convince you of anything. We could mince words till we’re blue in the face. All it’s going to do is serve as a distraction. I understand perfectly well why a lot of Vietnamese Americans feel they way they do about the war and about the US. I agree with them in some ways and disagree in others. In the end, I respect their views and agree to just disagree when we reach a standstill. End of story.
So let’s end it here. If you have more to say, you can air it out on your own blog.
I do have a blog, thanks. But it’s pretty tough to have a conversation with Sume, or to interact with her ideas, on my blog.
S-Y, haha, ouch! No wonder why people still look at me funny when I say we have a long way to go.
Kasey, thanks for delurking. I think you’re spot on. We have a long way to go in getting away from that old mentality. Attempts to super-impose adoptive parents’ identity on their adopted children was viewed as a sign of acceptance. While outwardly it would appear that way and adoptive parents might have even been sincere, it wasn’t about acceptance at all.
In a similar way, white liberal “multi-culturalism” while it seems to be about acceptance is clearly not as much as it is about covering white privilege and making people feel good about themselves. My understanding is still very basic, but that’s what I see.
Jeff, I don’t think you’re after interaction as much as you are attempting to defend and push your own ideas of how the world should be. That’s all fine and dandy but you need to do it somewhere else.
Jeff….I’m not sure if you are an aparent or maybe even an aparent to a tra child. If you are really interested in learning about the experience of adoptees or tras, reading blogs is a great idea. I spend hours each day doing exactly that. I do a whole heck of a lot more reading than I do talking though (not always easy). I don’t always comprehend everything the first go around….but you gotta keep trying. Sometimes it’s difficult to see a perspective when you’ve spent your whole life in another perspective.
Another way to gain a better understanding of the experience of people whose lives have been changed through adoption is to read, read, read lots of books. I have plenty of recommendations on my blog and I add new books to my list all of the time.
If this is not what your goal was, please disregard.
Sume–
I work with families preparing to adopt and love giving them lots of viewpoints and information from the beginning so they can start thinking about situations before they ever occur. I’d love to use your post as part of this preparation as it so eloquently addresses something I’ve heard over and again. Not everyone has to agree with it, but you’re right, it gets people thinking and in a place where they can reflect on the issue. Thanks for that.
Do you have a problem with me using it in this way?
Dear M,
Thank you for the kind advice. I’m a father of four non-adopted children. My wife was born in Nha Trang, Vietnam. After #2 we went so far as to have a home study done for a Vietnamese adoption. We know several families who have adopted domestically. We have been reading adoption related literature for years.
You’re right about blogs. I’ve spent some time reading yours as well. Sume’s blog in particular has been a real eye-opener for me. I had no idea there was this big world of TRA anger and resentment against white people in general and adoptive parents in particular. Sume’s language is accusatory, and yes, I’m defensive because some of what she writes strikes me as very unfair. But apparently this is a place for lashing out without fear of rebuttal. So it’s back to lurking for me.
Thanks Mama2roo,
and thanks for asking first. I don’t mind this post being used for the purposes you stated “giving them lots of viewpoints and information from the beginning so they can start thinking about situations before they ever occur”. As long as my reprint policy isn’t violated which reminds me. I need to post up a “official reprint/usage policy”.
Nahh, I don’t expect everyone to agree with me. If the post makes people stop and think outside their own perspective, it’s served much of its purpose.
Jeff, if all you’ve gotten out of our blogs is “this big world of TRA anger and resentment against white people in general and adoptive parents in particular”, then you might want to ask yourself why that is.
If people want to find feel-good stories about adoption, there are plenty of places to find them. For years the adoptee experience has mostly been framed and narrated by everyone except those of us who have lived it.
No, I will not wrap my posts about adoption or racism in nice, sweet, easy-to-swallow packages. I think both adoptive parents and yes, white people have been catered to enough when it comes to us muting our experiences.
As far as I know, my blog is the only one of its kind. (If anyone knows of a blog like mine by a Viet adoptee, please let me know!) You could join those who call me crazy, those who say I’m an anomaly or those just wait for me to go away. Why should you be so threatened by my single, tiny voice?
Yes, this is my blog to run as I please and err… I believe you rebutted several times already. If this “were not the place for rebuttal”, I would have never let your rather lengthy comments through in the first place. Anyone who’s read my blog for a long period of time knows that I do not moderate comments just on the basis of whether they disagree or not. However, you will not be allowed to use my comment section as your personal pulpit. Do it on your own blog.
“I think both adoptive parents and yes, white people have been catered to enough when it comes to us muting our experiences.”
No one – least of all me – has asked you to mute your experiences. I’ve said repeatedly that I appreciate that aspect of your writing.
“However, you will not be allowed to use my comment section as your personal pulpit.”
Just for the record: there has been no sermonizing or monologues on my part. Everything I wrote was in direct response to something you wrote. That’s called a conversation.
“Do it on your own blog.”
Go ahead and ban me If it makes you feel better. Or, as I recently read on another “hate whitey” TRA blog, “rage on girlfriend”. I think I’ve had about enough anyway.
Jeff, I repeat: if all you’ve gotten out of our blogs is “this big world of TRA anger and resentment against white people in general and adoptive parents in particular”, then you might want to ask yourself why that is.
Just because everything you wrote was in response to what I wrote, doesn’t necessarily make it a conversation or mean that you aren’t sermonizing. Example:
“Immigrants should embrace as much of American culture as possible without corrupting their morals or disrupting a good and wholesome way of life.”
Who are you to tell “immigrants” how they should live? Besides, what might be “good and wholesome” to you might not mean the same for the “immigrants”.
Yes, it would make me feel better to ban you, but you haven’t given me a good enough reason yet.
“Or, as I recently read on another “hate whitey” TRA blog, “rage on girlfriend”. I think I’ve had about enough anyway.
How much you can take is totally up to you. Funny how with some, anything critical of white people is labeled a “hate whitey” blog. If by “another” you mean mine is such, then that’s just sad.
“Jeff, I repeat: if all you’ve gotten out of our blogs is ‘this big world of TRA anger and resentment against white people in general and adoptive parents in particular’, then you might want to ask yourself why that is.”
1. That is not “all I’ve gotten” from your blogs. But it is obviously a central and recurring theme.
2. Why should I ask myself? I don’t write the stuff.
“Just because everything you wrote was in response to what I wrote, doesn’t necessarily make it a conversation or mean that you aren’t sermonizing. Example:
‘Immigrants should embrace as much of American culture as possible without corrupting their morals or disrupting a good and wholesome way of life.’ ”
This was a direct answer to one of your questions. You asked:“Are you saying they should fully assimilate themselves into ‘American’ society by your definition, whatever that may be, or should they try to exist in America without ever incorporating its culture into their lives?” I answered. A conversation.
“Who are you to tell ‘immigrants’ how they should live?”
I’m just an American with an opinion. I have ancestors, relatives, friends, and neighbors who are also Americans. We share a common culture with unique characteristics that I want to see preserved, not diluted or fogotten. So I want immigrants – and all Americans – to embrace our culture at its best. You don’t agree?
“Besides, what might be ‘good and wholesome’ to you might not mean the same for the ‘immigrants’.”
Good and wholesome are things that exist, objectively. If you don’t believe in objective reality then conversation is impossible.
“Yes, it would make me feel better to ban you, but you haven’t given me a good enough reason yet.”
Your restraint is admirable.
“Funny how with some, anything critical of white people is labeled a ‘hate whitey’ blog.”
Hating whitey is evidently a pastime for some of your friends – an obsession, not a passing criticism. Yet white people can’t even compliment non-whites without being accused of racism.
I was going back to lurking, wasn’t I? The last word is yours, Sume. If you don’t ask me anymore questions I promise not to answer them.
Jeff, thank you for answering me. Sometimes on blogs I do see a lot of anger and resentment toward aparents and white people. That’s one of the things that keeps me reading blogs….because I want to understand where the anger and resentment are coming from. I believe that most people are rational people and if they are expressing those feelings, there must be a reason. Usually the feelings make sense.
That’s not to say that I don’t find blogs of people who are hateful. These blogs come from all kinds of people and are directed at all kinds of people. They are the kind of blogs I avoid like the plague. There is nothing to gain from them.
I hope you do hang around adoption related blogs and I hope you write more frequently to your blog. I was raised Roman Catholic and I like reading about all things Catholic.
And, Sume, sorry for taking over this thread so much!
One more thing, Sume – and then I’m really gone. I was going to send you an e-mail but maybe it belongs here.
Thank you. Seriously. Behind the anger and bitterness I have learned some important things from your blog. I never really considered what international adoptees go through in terms of identity issues. Well, that’s not quite true – but your writing has forced me to go much deeper. And to realize that I have a long way to go. For that I am grateful to you. Godspeed.
In my education of a-parenting and transracial adoption I have learnt that by incorporating my future children’s birth culture into our everyday lives, I am valuing their birth history, their culture and traditions. I have learnt that the more we make links with our children’s culture (in what ever fashion suits), the people in our community with whom pour children share culture and with other TRAs the more secure in their cultural identity our children will be. I have learnt that if we initiate and maintain open and honest discussion with our children about birth family history, grieff and loss, culture and adoption, we are more likely to be raising resilient, emotionallty-adept, self assured people who are in touch with their identity in all facets. I have learnt that is is not an easy road to travel; it will be a challenge to make sure we do everything we can to facilitate it. But I am excited to be a part of that for another human being.
As a future a-parent, I am always keen to learn from TRAs – you have ‘been there, done that!” – who better should I learn from? I really value your thoughts, Sume, as a way of being taught to be a better a-parent than those in the past. Thank you for this post.
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